User talk:Viriditas/Archive 5

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"replacing the image with a clear icon."

Hi,

On the talk page of WikiProject Hawaii, you said: "I would generally oppose any major changes to the template, except for replacing the image with a clear icon." I'm actually interested in the second half of that sentence. What do you mean by "a clear icon"? perhaps I can help. --Ling.Nut 00:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

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Re: Hippie/Visual arts dispute

Feel free to weigh in V. Apostle12 01:15, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Hippie edits

Viriditas -- You write:

Happy holidays, Bus stop. Could you make an effort to keep your comments brief and to the point? I'll also ask Apostle to stop the personal attacks. I'm also interested in resolving this argument, so if you want to try and convince me of why you think you are correct, you can use my talk page. Thanks. —Viriditas | Talk 00:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy holidays to you, Viriditas. Yes, please join in on the article's Talk page, if you would like to. It is under the heading "Hippie Influence On The Visual Arts." The participants have been, "Orange Mike," "Korky Day," "Apostle12," and me, "Bus stop." You don't have to ask Apostle12 to curtail his behavior in any way. I've enjoyed my interactions with all the participants thus far. Please feel free to join in. And I promise I will try to keep my comments to you "brief and to the point." Thank you. Bus stop 02:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey Viri, thanks for the "small" Christmas tree decoration! I shall arrange a special tree of suitable size so I may use it next year! I shall have to have a hole cut in my roof to accommodate it, though! Sorry about your dad, I hope he is okay. Next year I will try to get my Christmas mail done before members of your family maim themselves! LOL. All the best, Viri, Sarah 10:07, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Hippie edits continued

Viriditas posts on my Talk page:

Hi. Due to time constraints, I was hoping you and Apostle could summarize the main points in contention. Looking at the discussion, it appears to be a semantic, not a content dispute. —Viriditas | Talk 23:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Viriditas -- How do you see "semantics" in operation in what we were discussing? I don't recall anyone else using that word, but I could be mistaken. I don't see why you are engaging in what seems like "shuttle diplomacy." Why not just weigh in with your thoughts on the article's Talk page? Bus stop 00:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hippie edits, further continued

Viriditas says, on my user Talk page:

Hello, again. The meaning of visual arts in the context of the hippies appears to be in dispute, hence semantics, not content. As for the discussion, I am presently mobile, editing from my cell phone, and the IE ver. doesn't allow me to edit large sections for some reason, so I am unable to reply. I'll try Opera and see if that works. Either way, I would still appreciate it if you could summarize your position in 50 words on my talk page. Thanks! —Viriditas | Talk 01:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Viriditas -- If you want to weigh in with an opinion, please join in the discussion on the article's Talk page. I will certainly do my best to try to respond to you there. Bus stop 10:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hippie edits...

Viriditas writes, on my Talk page:

Ok, but you do understand that I'm having difficulty replying to that section due to it's length, right? That's why I can't add a comment. —Viriditas | Talk 10:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

OK. I understand. It's not urgent. Be well. Bus stop 14:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC

---

Hi Viriditas. I was able to find on Wikipedia (where else?), an explanation for your Latin name. I like it.

I have been following the Phaedo page/discussion pages. Do you know how to read and/or write Classical Greek too? Thanks, warshy 15:44, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Last two sentences of introductory paragraph in "Hippie" article.

Viriditas -- In the "Hippie" article there is no source to back up the assertion that "Hippie opposition to The Establishment spread worldwide through..." That is a broad, sweeping statement. I don't think it should be made at all. I tried previously to change that statement to a lesser statement. I just wanted it to say something to the effect that the "culture," or the "philosophy," of the Hippies was expressed, or "spread," through the various means cited. But it has been changed back to "Hippie opposition to The Establishment spread worldwide through..." Again: I don't think such a grandiose claim should be made here. But if you are going to make that claim, it needs a source.

I have additional problems with the use of the term "visual art." I don't think it is the correct term to be used here. That phrase includes much more than what is implied here, or what is provided with a source here. A narrower term or phrase is called for, so as not to create the misleading impression that hippie culture had much of a bearing on "contemporary art," because it did not.

All that I am saying is in reference to the following two sentences, which I take objection to:

Hippie opposition to The Establishment spread worldwide through a fusion of early rock, folk, blues and psychedelic rock. To a lesser degree, hippie culture was expressed in literature, [11] the dramatic arts, [12] and many aspects of the visual arts, especially film, [13] posters advertising rock concerts, and LP album covers. [14] [15] Bus stop 19:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't write that, so when you say, "if you are going to make that claim, it needs a source" you need to choose your words a little more carefully. As for it being sourced, have you tried to find one? I believe there are many. Have you looked? BTW, I'm glad you stopped adding talk comments to the main article space. —Viriditas | Talk 19:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Viriditas -- I posted basically the same wording on Apostle12's Talk page and the article's Talk page. Sorry I didn't catch that wording implying that you made the change. Bus stop 20:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

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Favor?

File:Burritoalpastor.jpg

A thank-you burrito. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Viriditas,

Could you do me a favor? I've blocked User:The Blue Lion as an Eddie sock. He's saying he's not, and has gone so far as to try to open an Arbcom case on the matter. (Which was reverted as sockpuppetry, not by me). Could you look at the evidence I've given on his user talk page and see whether you agree with me that this is surely Eddie? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: burrito timeline

No problem. :) -- Kicking222 00:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ping

The Chaco Canyon site had listed the overview details before specific site listings for the whole year that I've had the article on my watchlist. I'm puzzled as to why you are making these changes now. You put the "Geography" section before everything else, which is not how most geography FAs do it (they put "History" first, usually -- e.g., look at Australia or Antarctica). I'm willing to let that point go, because it makes some sense. But please explain further regarding why we need to list all the site examples before giving readers a proper orientation of layout. Thanks. Saravask 14:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, sounds good. Thanks for explaining. Saravask 19:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

More thoughts about the animal rights article

Hello again. I took another look at Category talk:Activists and it looks like getting involved there would exhaust me so I'll give a firmer no at this point. Trying to let some light into Animal rights is bad enough, with the signal to noise ratio of most of the available internet resources closely approximating zero since I no longer have access to the University library and its subscriptions. I looked at the other sections again. It is bad enough trying to figure out how to present Cohen better but the concept itself needs a critical review of assertions within the context of Hohfeldian classification...and that's original research! Regards.Trilobitealive 00:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

refine cat

Please explain more what you mean. Including what 'top level category' might mean, since there seem to be only a few 'tops' in the entire WP Thanks Hmains 03:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Does this mean for every category that has sub-categories, if those sub-categories have a main article, then all those main article would also be assigned directly to the category? This does not at all seem to be very useful. It means that any reader trying to look for the articles that are not in a sub-category has to wade through all (and this can be hundreds) of the 'main' articles that are actually in sub-categories and really be unable to find what they are after. It is also a pain to the maintainer of the category who seeks to properly place stray articles into their proper sub-categories. Thanks Hmains 05:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Please look at Category:Georgia (U.S. state) counties. I do not think that having all these articles directly under the Category:Georgia is helpful. I would remove those that have their sub-cat. Thanks Hmains 06:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Other opinions are always good. Who, from where, I do not know. I just do editing after reading what I see. Thanks Hmains 17:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Threats

See the policy on harassment. It's none of your business how I talk to Humus, who is perfectly capable of whining on his own behalf and doesn't need you to do it for him. No one is going to block me for chatting with Humus, dude, so spare me the threats too. Grace Note 05:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio

Please see this. Unless we know for sure that it was NPS employees who wrote all of that text (not just interns, contractors, or other non-employees), we cannot use their text. If you want further clarification on this point, please post a listing at Wikipedia:Copyright problems, where someone else can comment. Even so, adding their text verbatim would in effect constitute plagiarism, which is dishonest in and of itself. Whether or not there is a disclaimer, all of the above still applies. The current lead looks perfectly fine to me, and no one else has taken issue with it. If you continue to see such problems, point it out on talk instead of restoring plagiarized/copyvio text. Thanks. Saravask 22:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your encouragement V. As you well know, you helped me develop the discipline to write less from the cuff, do in depth research and cite my sources. Apostle12 05:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Children of Men

Yeah, it's nice to run into you again too. That little tid bit about Theo being dead was giving me some problems at my www.moviebodycounts.com site. Members were fighting me over giving it a "kill" count so I found the information to back it up. I figured if I was having the problem Wikipedia might be having it as well. Interesting to see that you were working on it too. - JenGe 01:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the haircut!

On the MacGuffin article, I mean. +ILike2BeAnonymous 08:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Children of Men's title

(I previously posted this to The Children of Men's discussion page, but seeing as how you are also reverting correct edits to the movie's article, I felt it best to post this here in case you missed my comments.)

According to many sources, the title is in fact derived from Psalm 90.3 of the King James Version that reads: "Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men" [1][2][3] [4] [5] In other versions of the Bible, there are different translations (as always) of this line which sometimes reads: "But humans you return to dust, saying, "Return, you mortals!" (New American Bible [6]) or "You turn men back to dust, saying, "Return to dust, O sons of men" (The New International Version [7]). Hebrew scriptures apparently have a translation that is similar to the latter.

In short, those anon IPs actually have a point! Hopefully this settles it. María: (habla ~ cosas) 01:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I still have issues with your argument. The external links listed at Psalm 91 are incorrect, if what you are saying is true; that the masoretic text is the same as the Greek (even though the Greek would make sense seeing as how we are attempting to point out that Children of Men is a Christian allegory), only plus one. The links lead to Psalm 91 (er, what is Psalm 91 in Christian texts, that is). The line the title was taken from is nowhere in sight, because it is listed under 90, not 91. So what is the point of even linking to it in the CoM articles? You were also incorrect in saying that "the source text is found in that direction," because it most certainly is not. [8] The redirect may have also been a wrong move. My little atheist mind is getting mixed up with all of this. María: (habla ~ cosas) 13:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I understand completely. Everything makes a lot more sense now, thank goodness. 89/90 it is, then. María: (habla ~ cosas) 20:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Cabalism

[9] Thanks, Viri! That gave me such a laugh! :D Sarah 18:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the Aussie Day wishes! You should be careful showing knowledge of things like that or you might single-handedly dispel the image of Americans being ignorant of other countries! ;D Thanks for pointing out your friend. I will keep an eye out and maybe she'll be good for an RfA in a few months. I ran her name through the edit counter [10] and she currently has only 470 total edits and most (312) have been this month, so it's probably a bit premature, but she sounds promising if she's showing admin qualities this early. :) Take care, Viri. Cheers, Sarah 13:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

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activists & animal rights, again

Hi Viriditas - Just FYI; I was doing stub-sorting of various activists & SlimVirgin asked me, essentially, not to. I raised some questions @ the Animal rights movement page but don't expect any of them to ever respond to them -- they really don't seem interested in dealing with the fact that ARM categories affect the encyclopedia beyond their little turf area. If you're still interested in discussing though go right ahead. I've essentially withdrawn from touching any pages that implicate any of the animal rights categories, because I found them really difficult to talk to & work with. ... Finally, a CFD for Feb 1 has popped up on the "PETA activists" category, and on "Category:Activists" generally. Since I know you said you'd been working on activists too I thought you'd like to know. --lquilter 01:26, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

List of burrito fillings

List of taco fillings has been nominated for deletion, along with List of burrito fillings. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of taco fillings. BlankVerse 14:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, neither of the lists were sourced. I guess that because I live in Southern California, I figured most of the information in the lists was common knowledge. Besides, all of the lists that I've seen at articles like "Cuisine of Foo" have never been sourced. How can you reference those types of lists except add :

<ref>Menu of the El Norteña Restaurant, 1234 Main Street, Podunk, California; accessed (and consumed) 4 February 2007</ref>?

I guess that I'll just have to save the lists, and then figure a way to reintegrate the info back into the taco and burrito articles. BlankVerse 08:13, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

CoM plot

Is there any way you can tie in sentences in the Plot section to create fuller paragraphs? I've noticed that it's generally frowned upon in Wikipedia articles for paragraphs to consist of only 2-3 sentences. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 20:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

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Shantih

I thought you were trying to remove the "Shantih" mention from the Plot section. I was cleaning up the backward reference since the mention was no longer in the Plot section, but solely in Themes. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 21:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, this shows you re-adding it. I guess all three of us got some edits mixed up, but you contest including the "Shantih" reference in the Plot section, right? —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 22:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I argue in favor of having it, as it is an objective part of the movie, and not a subjective part, like lighting (although it does contain qualities of the latter, since it is open to thematic interpretation).Arcayne 23:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Our boy's calling you out on the talk page. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 22:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Who's calling who out?Arcayne 23:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

You are. From the talk page: "We don't think that is necessarily civil, do we?" which is tied into your edit summary here.

Oh, yes. That was a poke. I thought the edits were seeming a bit...well, high-handed. You tossing in the Royal We and not bothering to discuss potential changes and rv my changes 3 times did not help me love you. Ignoring folk is not the same as being civil. We've both had some friction, so an effort by both of us to get along helps matter tremendously.Arcayne 23:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Viriditas, I'm kind of throwing in random (but relevant!) bits of information into the article, though your help would be appreciated in tying it all together. I remember your concern with my clump of trivia points under "Themes and influences", so if you could advise on where things could go, that would be appreciated. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 23:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you can work this into Themes somehow, but I found this at The Scotsman: "Cuarón, who is 44 and has three children, says it is no accident that young people have been central to his work, in films such as A Little Princess, Y Tu Mama Tambien and Harry Potter, because children are very 'important in my own notions of hope. And Children of Men is a film about hope'." There still quite a bit of content left, especially production-wise. I want to get this long shot stuff straightened out, because there seems to be a contrast in the statements. I haven't seen the movie yet, so I haven't been able to get an idea of what long shots there were, and how many were used. I also need to find something about the director using source light (no set lights) in filming; it's in one of the citations, and is probably worth including. Nice edits to the production section, by the way, it flows better. Was wondering, though, can we take out the mention of "a story about hope and faith"? I was kind of trying to keep the May 2004 citation for the sake of the timeline, but the talk about the order in which he filmed his movies in the past decade takes care of that. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 14:18, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

Heads up

You've reached your reverting limit for this 24 hour period. I'd thought I'd tell you in case you weren't keeping track.  BIGNOLE   (Question?)  (What I do)  00:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Go to User:Erikster/Sandbox#CoM and click "edit". A couple of print articles (that I don't think are available online) that might have some more insight about the film. The second article especially compares the book and the film, which could be of use for a "Differences between film and novel" section. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 18:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

A Different Approach

Seeing as this is going to escalate unless we can figure out a way to work together, let's try to find a different way to resolve this. Allow me to propose a hypothetical questions to you: if you had to find a way to incorporate the statements into the plot, how would you do so? I think that if we can answer this, I might be able to see your resistance to the problem a lot better. I am asking this question in good faith, trying to defuse all the tension here. I don't consider myself a troll, and would feel bad if there wasn't a way to help you work your way past that perjorative.Arcayne 04:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, this is a bizarre question considering that I addressed this very issue on the talk page of the article just minutes before [11]you added this to my talk page: you know the answer to the question, yet you keep asking it. —Viriditas | Talk 05:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I just finished politely requesting that you avoid my talk page and work on keeping the discussion on the article talk page, and right away, you leave me a comment on my talk page. This is the kind of trollish behavior I am talking about. I am willing to chalk it up as an innocent mistake on your part, but for now, please respect my wishes and leave my talk page alone. Thank you. —Viriditas | Talk 04:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

sigh...very well. I did try to resolve this conflict through talking with you about it. If you choose not to even try, then you only have yourself to blame for the results.

I don't have a personal conflict with you. I have chosen to resolve a conflict about article content on the article talk page. If you think you have a personal conflict with me, or believe that I have a personal conflict with you (even though I have just finished explaining to you that I don't) then I suppose you should talk to someone about it, preferably an administrator or a mediator. —Viriditas | Talk 04:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to request (as I am doing of the other editor) that you no longer comment on my talk page regarding any sort of "Shantih" matter. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 13:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

CoM cast

I don't have any specific preference with how to structure the character design in the film. Could be its own "Cast" or "Casting" section (although I'm not crazy about the listy form, which seems redundant), or it could be a subsection underneath Production -- have some main Production paragraphs, then have specific-production subsections such as "Casting" and "Cinematography". Just some thoughts. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 22:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi there, good buddy!

Hi! How've you been? Haven't heard of you for a long while, i thought you may have developed wikitis! On a wikipedia note.. can you take a look at my edits to Hydroxyzine, please? James.Spudeman 20:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I've only prescribed hydroxyzine a handful of times, mainly because it's been recalled for shelf-life problems. In terms of the vivid dreams, i've had one person explain to me their experiences, but it was aided mainly by the fact they had other concomitant CNS depressants as well as sensitivity to hydroxyzine and cetirizine in their notes previously. To be fair, pfizer haven't released that useful a guideline, so i've only got my own personal notes and clinical reference books to go by in terms of the subcortical suppression method of achieving antiemetic effects.

Benadril is a stronger sedating agent; it's used more widely as (transient) sedatives, because it's also available for use as an antitussive and has similar effects to Chlorpheniramine in contraindicatory, precautionary and interactive terms. James.Spudeman 22:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Consider it under-way! :-) Still, i have to say that the vivid dreams and soforth, are, in my experience, only seen when taken alongside more "potent" CNS agents; on the whole, it's one of the weakest sedatives, as sedation is a side-effect as it prevents the binding of histamine to receptors and changes shape to do so.

In all studies i've seen, there's absolutely no indication that there's direct links between vistaril or atarax with hallucinations or vivid dreams -- it's only got an affect on the formatio reticularis as a "calming effect", and is used in psych for such purposes. Perhaps vivid dreams could have occured in some from residual traces of other CNS agents.. who knows. James.Spudeman 23:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Editor dispute

Stop having dialogue with him if you're both going to bite each other's head off. Additionally, the accusation of sockpuppetry is a stretch, and Arcayne's 3RR violation was in error as I saw the situation take place myself. I know you're in disagreement with his perspective about the article, but your lack of civility is clearly showing. I strongly advise you to cut down on the diatribes and keep it objective. If he asks about something, just answer it with reasoning -- don't pad on your personal accusations. Keep it objective and succinct for the sake of minimizing future conflicts. Thanks. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 12:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Children of Men

Hi, Viriditas, thanks for inviting me to join the discussion at Talk:Children of Men/Temp as well as the editing on the main article. I'll take a closer look and see if I can help out; earlier I saw some of the hustle and bustle, but thought it best to wait for it to calm down before jumping in. I wouldn't want to step on anyone's toes or, ah, get accused of being a sock puppet twice. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute something later on, though, so thanks again for the invite. PS: I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty, but I closed your div tag above. María: (habla ~ cosas) 16:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Vir, I'll try to improve the article when other duties don't call. I haven't seen the film, so I won't be able to fix places where the meaning is unclear.

People keep walking into The Prestige and undoing our earlier good work. It's discouraging. Cognita 19:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No can do anymore, Viriditas. I feel like I've been banging my head against a cinderblock wall, and it's only been for a few hours. I can't imagine how your head feels. So, I feel I have to unwatch these articles and concentrate on something more mundane before I lose whatever sanity I had to begin with; I may return later to see how things are going, though. I hope to work with you again some other time! María: (habla ~ cosas) 19:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

To be clear, I don't believe Arcayne was in any way attacking me, or abusing the discussion. As I said to him, however, I hate having to repeat myself numerous times, especially about guidelines and OR, because someone is single-minded and unwilling to listen. Has been unwilling to listen for quite some time, and not just with me. I'm glad you agree with me, and I definitely agree with you, but I think taking a small break and then discussing this further is a very good idea. Talk to you later, yeah? María: (habla ~ cosas) 21:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

In the issue about the table about disasters in Children of Men, I have no written source. I just did like this: On the official website you can see clips from the movie, and among those there's a clip that show the propaganda film. I watched it, and simpley paused the clip to see every city, and then wrote it down. I don't know if that's a ok way to do it, but I liked the idea of having the list of disasters on Wikipedia. And because of this method I didn't really knew how to name the source.--Hammerby 12:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Those cities were not the ones in the propaganda film, there were way more cities. Enter the site http://www.childrenofmen.net/ --> Enter The Site --> Skip Intro --> Navigate --> Last One To Die --> Gods Punishiment Only Britain Soldiers On OPEN There is the propaganda film in the same version that's in the movie, wich can be seen because it's shown on a TV in a bus, wich it also is in the movie.

I couldn't find anything like that on the website, so I don't have any written source about the film.

Cool, I haven't read the script or seen the film... I was just making a guess. Thanks for the correction. Have a nice day. laonoodlekeemow 14:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The V-team.

Time to get to work on Cetirizine, boys

I'm going to work my magic, this time on Cetirizine; do you want to follow behind and copyedit if neccesary? I love it when a plan comes together! James.Spudeman 21:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Kimura's Disease

Sure, i've diagnosed it once.. wouldn't mind. I'm working on the book OpenTrigonometry on wikibooks tonight, but i'll get on it tommorow. Also, could i ask you a favour? I'm going to be making a little "presentation piece" for a few other doctors, and want some perspectives on why people edit the wikipedia, so i'm just going to ask for a 100 word piece from a few people as to why they edit the wikipedia and a summary of what they think it symbolises.

If you could pop it to me in my talk page, i'd be thankful to ye! :-) James.Spudeman 21:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure, i'll add pharmacokinetic data, when i have free time. On that note; my schedule? James.Spudeman 00:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Pushing The Prestige to GA

Viriditas, I'd like to see The Prestige attain Good Article status very soon. You and others (especially Cognita) have done a great job on it and I think it's ready for a peer review. I've looked at other film article peer reviews (see Peer review/Memento for instance) and I think only two things need to be addressed first: (1) the lead should be expanded, perhaps a middle paragraph that briefly addresses the film's themes and the well-done narrative structure (and how it successfully captures the novel's themes); and (2) the excision of the Differences section. For the latter, Erikster ably weighed in today (see the talk page) and hit something I failed to explicitly state (what an idiot!): the section is completely original research! It needs verifiable sources. That, combined with its trivia nature should take care of it.

I did make some changes to the Plot section after watching the DVD a second time (first time for enjoyment only, and to see my son's name in the credits), so I hope they look okay to you (please review).

I'd be glad to work on the lead expansion, but I invited User:Cognita to help given her copy editing experience. Would you be willing to take a swing at it, too? Once this is done then I'd like to request the peer review in anticipation for nomination for GA. Thanks for all you've done.

—  Jim Dunning  talk  :  19:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Here's a first stab at expanding the lead. The strategy is to add a middle paragraph that summarizes themes and styles. The lead should not contain anything that is not in the article body, so I'm going to have to find some good sources to support the adaptation copy. I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the 2^nd para's last sentence, so be merciless.

The Prestige Lead Revision

—  Jim Dunning  talk  :  14:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

OK: I found what I was looking for and the Production section has had a single sentence (but 3 cites) added to cover the theme adaptation topic. It supports the lead.

—  Jim Dunning  talk  :  18:12, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Cognita made some suggestions that work great. Take a look when you get a chance and let us know what you think or go ahead and make changes. Thanks. Jim D 23:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Viriditas, congratulations for all your hard, talented work — you did a great job! Check this out. Thank you for making it an excellent article.

—  Jim Dunning  talk  :  01:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

		The Editor's Barnstar
		I award the Editor's Barnstar to Viriditas for tireless and expert editing of The Prestige (film) article, especially in developing and maintaining the quality of the Plot section. Viriditas' efforts were key to the article achieving GA status. Thank you. —  Jim Dunning  talk  :  17:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Films February Newsletter

The February 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Cbrown1023 talk 23:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Ramadan riots

Desperate help needed on islamophobic article Ramadan riots which is actually the same thing as French riots. Claims that the french unrest in the ghetoes was motivated by hatred of jews and christians as allegedly commanded by the quran, as opposed to alienation of arab and african kids. Support speedy deletion. Aaliyah Stevens 00:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You're officially a pharmacology samurai ;-)

Picture of the pharmacology "crew"; from left to right -- Viriditasu Supaeiditaa, Jiemuzu "Ekusupandaa" masuta and Garakushiadu Notamanu

James.Spudeman 22:31, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue X - March 2007

The March 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 20:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Terrorism in Kazakhstan

Hi, You recently participted in an AFD on Terrorism in Kazakhstan. Your input on a proposed page move is desired. Regards, KazakhPol 23:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Children of Men lead

Hey, I appreciate your invite, but I think you guys have it under control over at the temp page. The suggestions look solid, and I really doubt I have anything worthwhile to contribute. I'm not watching the main article at the moment, either, so I've kind of distanced myself from it for now. Best of luck, man, hope I see you around elsewhere. María: (habla ~ cosas) 01:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Bug

Thanks for pointiong that out. There is no way I could have made that edit, must be some kind of bug. I have restored what I can, SqueakBox 00:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

"Though the hippie movement itself extended far beyong the US"

I see you are in the thick of it with Squeakbox and Codex Sinectus. Rather poor edits, I must say!

But the above....isn't this rather modest statement pretty self-evident? Merely a summary of a massive amount of evidence? There may, or may not, be a citation that says exactly this. Is one really necessary to include it? Apostle12 08:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help with the Bishop Pike page

I'm still working on getting up to speed on good practices. It was my first major reworking of a biography. I've put in a couple image use requests to the Grace Cathedral where he was Bishop - they have some good shots - Pike with MLK, etc. We'll keep our fingers crossed.

Just wondering - how did you happen upon the page?

--RFlynn1000 12:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I hope you think I'm heading in the right direction with my expansion...

--RFlynn1000 12:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Hippie lead

Hi Viriditas. Through a series of edits, I reconstructed the lead of the "Hippie" article to effect a compromise that I hope might satisfy you, Squeakbox and Codex Sinaiticus. I have remained true to the Hirsch quote, though I have also addressed a central point made by SqueakBox and Codex Sinaiticus, which I believe has merit.

Specifically the development of the hippie ethos was an interactive affair, with its earliest beginnings in the S.F. Bay Area (Chan Laughlin, Ginsburg et al in Berkeley and San Francisco, Neal Cassady and Ken Kesey in Menlo Park and La Honda). Then very soon afterwards a direct connection was established with the Beatles, especially after Ginsburg's visit to the U.K. and their visit to the Bay Area in 1965. Subsequently the Beatles and other English groups directly influenced the development and spread of the hippie ethos through their music.

In other words, the cultural influences traveled back and forth, from one side of the pond to the other.

The lead as previously written did not convey this. I am sure that the lead as currently written can be improved, and the sourcing can be made better. Anyway, a start...all I have time for this evening. (copied to "Hippie-talk" Apostle12 08:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

WPHawaii

I changed the bot to use the WPHawaii template. The articles list is now really short, and I don't understand why. It looks to me like some articles with WikiProject Hawaii are still listed, not just those with WPHawaii (which is how I thought template redirects worked). I've reverted the article list. I may look into why it's not working, but also have a lot of real-life stuff going on right now. Have you considered officially renaming the existing template? Then someone else's bot will change all references (I wouldn't trust mine to handle a template with parameters). Ingrid 04:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

You know what, it just occurred to me that it's probably a database update issue. I know that template changes do not automatically update right away as far as bots are concerned, even though they do for users. I'll try again in a couple of days, and it will probably just work. Remind me if I forget (you'll know because the text at the top of the article list mentions the template name). Ingrid 04:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Settlements

I am not justifying 'Settlements' as the group term for cities, towns, villages and the like. It use for this purpose existed long in WP long before I noticed it. I took what existed and extended its use to where it was yet in use, part of my consistency editing. Some WP editors like Settlements for this purpose; others do not. So far, there is no WP agreed upon alternative to this term so it continues to be used. Thanks. Hmains 05:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

WP uses the settlements as a group category to put together categories for cities, towns, villages and similar local places where humans live. This allows users to more easily find entities that are related. Thanks Hmains 02:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Different editors have different opinions on various aspects of WP; these are resolved through normal WP processes. As far as finding out how Settlements is used (or a rather better term, 'Human Settlements'), see Goggle for the many relevant instances of 'Human Settlements' in use. Hmains 04:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Children of Men DVD

I wasn't sure if you were aware, but there's a nice amount of special features on the DVD for Children of Men (finally rented and saw it last night). Have you been able to view these features at all? —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 16:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Fifth Melbourne meetup etc

I complied with your request. I don't know what the background was, but I'm sure there's a good reason. Metamagician3000 07:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

March WP:FILMS Newsletter

The March 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This is an automated notice by Cbrown1023 talk 01:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XI - April 2007

The April 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by Grafikbot 11:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Hawaii articles

Aloha Viriditas. Another editor and myself have been in an edit war on several of the articles related to Hawaii. We seem to have reached an impasse, and could use a third party intervention. Your help or suggestions would be most welcome, and thanks in advance. Cheers, Arjuna 21:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Aloha Viriditas, I would also appreciate your help in mediating our disagreement. It seems to center around whether or not Arjuna's interpretation of the historical record is a "fact", and therefore superior to my interpretation of the historical record. He continues to delete references to interpretations contrary to his, and has been insisting that there is no ambiguity in what he considers to be the "facts" of the matter. I'm more than happy to discuss specifically what "facts" Arjuna is asserting that are causing our disagreement. Mahalo! --JereKrischel 21:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Aloha again Viriditas and thanks for your message and offer to help mediate the strong disagreement. Unfortunately, it's not just on History of Hawaii, but also Native Hawaiians, Kingdom of Hawaii, and Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. On the other hand, I think the main sticking point is over whether the term "alleged" needs to preceed the phrase "U.S. role [in the overthrow]". More on this on the Talk:History_of_Hawaii page. I share your enthusiasm for creating/promoting WP Hawaii resources btw, and happy to pitch in.

Btw, I apologize to all parties for inadvertently breaking the 3RR rule, for which JK rightly reported me. I simply wasn't paying attention and should have been more careful -- won't happen again! Thanks in advance for your help. Arjuna 04:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Dennis Pavao Article

Aloha Viriditas. I am curious to know why you placed the tag that this article must adhere to living person's biography. The late Dennis Pavao passed in 2002. I am going to remove the tag since it is NOT applicable. Mahalo ā nui loa. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 07:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a Guitarist infobox on that talk page. According to the page history, you are the one tht put it there. -- Kanaka maoli i puuwai 20:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

April 2007 WP:FILMS Newsletter

The April 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This is an automated notice by BrownBot 22:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XII - May 2007

The May 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 16:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:1915 Dance by Rodchenko.jpg

Hello, Viriditas. An automated process has found and removed a fair use image used in your userspace. The image (Image:1915 Dance by Rodchenko.jpg) was found at the following location: User talk:Viriditas/Archive 13. This image was removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image was replaced with Image:Example.jpg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image to replace it with. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 22:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Will you help?

I need your help in Muhammad picture dispute. Can you please improve this article and help me in filing an arbitration case? I have to file arbitration case in a week. Thanking you in anticipation. --- A. L. M. 09:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

You have been blocked

I have blocked both you and Arcayne for 24 hours for edit warring on Children of Men. Heimstern Läufer 21:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. —Viriditas | Talk 21:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Bosnians

Can you please explain why you are ading notorietyless vanity names to that list?

Ok. you are not responding so I will put back the version.

Kokua on Portal:Hawaii

Virditas. Thanks for your help and contributions to the Hawaii Portal. I am slowly but surely getting this portal to come along. With you help and hopefully help from others in the future, we can make this a great portal. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 01:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikibreak

Won't be long. Arguing about non-free content and how it should apply just got me hot under the collar, more so than this project should ever do to me. Needed a break from frequently monitoring the watchlist and jumping into another insipid discussion about fair use. I'll be back. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Haunani-Kay Trask

Hi Viriditas. I see your comment on the Trask talk page but I was surprised by your hasty removal. I was against including the poetry to begin with, but have been reading some of her work and feel that it can be included vis a vis her influence from Franz Fanon who also wrote non-critical (but not non-criticism work) as part of his activism. Thoughts? Maunakea 06:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know it is unsourced. I have the book next to me and can add a source if you'd like. I didn't add it in the first place (nor have I touched anything on the article) but I thought the flat-out deletion was a bit hasty. That's all. I will cite any criticism as well if I do update it. Just thought that it's a better idea to add a "citation needed" tag rather than deleting it, especially since there's discussion about it on the talk page. Aloha nui, Maunakea 06:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

C'mon, this is basic etiquette: "Before engaging in a major edit, a user should consider discussing proposed changes on the article discussion/talk page...A major edit is a version that should be reviewed to confirm that it is consensual to all concerned editors." You misuse the meaning of wiki by appropriating it to condone hasty editing.

If it's being discussed on the talk page, you should give time for people to respond instead of just deleting entire sections/reducing the scope of the article. Yes, people were not properly citing sources. That is exactly what was being discussed on the talk page. That doesn't mean you should delete entire sections. Her poetry constitutes half of her publishing history, so that itself is grounds for inclusion. Maunakea 06:40, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

So why didn't you just remove the original research and leave everything else? Maunakea 06:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Portal

Howzit! Eh cuz, no need thank me. I was bored the other and wanted to learn how to build a portal. I figured there was no better way to do it than to sit down and start one. I figured that since Hawaiʻi did not have a portal yet, that I would build it. Anyways, yeah, lets talk about how to make this portal better. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 04:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Brah, I will let you take the lead on setting up the discussion. I am about to go eat dinner with my keiki. I will check this when I get back home. Alohaz! Kanaka maoli i puuwai 04:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

By the way. Are you admin? Kanaka maoli i puuwai 09:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Aloha kakahiaka! Did you ever get the chance to start the discussion forum? I will go the the Wiki Project: Hawaiʻi talk page and leave a message there asking for all to review the Hawaiʻi Portal and leave their feedback on the Portal talk page. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 21:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Popups rollback

Please use this only for vandalism, not for good-faith edits, however bad the edits may be. While normally I would say removal of content is vandalism, Harlequinn did offer his reasoning in his edit summary,[12] and although I think his reasoning is flawed, it still seems to be a good-faith, if misguided, edit. KillerChihuahua^?!? 11:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Article on Matrixism: an Entheogenic Religion

There is an article on a entheogenic new religious movement called Matrixism being created at User:Xoloz/Matrixism. There are numerous sources for this article yet it has because contentious because it deals with the subject of entheogens. Thought you might like to look at it and perhaps contribute. 206.124.144.3 05:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Milky Way

I apologize for stepping on your toes. —Viriditas | Talk 04:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

My apologies as well. We obviously differing viewpoints that I'm sure can be resolved. Thank you. — RJH (talk) 18:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Construction of Hawaii Portal all pau, I think

Aloha Viriditas. Again, please allow me to send nā mahalo pumehana your way. Thanks for helping me get the Hawaiʻi Portal up and running. I think the "construction" phase is pau. Please give it a look over and tell me what you think. There are still things that can be done to improve it, but there are no longer any "broken links". Please, let me know what you think. I think after all the work that I put into this portal, it is time for a Wiki Break. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 20:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers

Check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers!!!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you" Contribs} 23:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Spider-Man film series

I revised this article with the help of Bignole, and I was wondering if you could take a look and make any suggestions about how it could be improved as an article that addresses the overall series thus far. A couple of things that I plan to do are to have pseudo-leads for the film subsections, and to somehow deal with the "List indicator(s)" box. I may also try to find some citations that mention the contractual obligations for all three films for the cast. Any tips would be appreciated. Also, since you have worked with more current films, can you take a look at Spider-Man 4 and pass your judgment on its AfD? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I like to save it for last. I plan another paragraph of Critical reaction, and I'm gonna see if there's any references that point out how all the Spider-Man films have set new opening day records when they debuted or something like that. Just to show how the franchise has rocked the box office. I'm also planning to merge Spider-Man (Unfilmed Cannon version) into Development, so it'll be a little fuller and could probably make up a lot of the first or second lead paragraph. I'm probably gonna be slightly redundant in Cast and characters and explain how Maguire and Dunst got on board (since they've been the heart of the series thus far), and add in contractual obligations. That should fill in the gap created by that box. Still a way to go. :) —Erik (talk • contrib) - 04:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I haven't considered that approach. I guess I've always thought the other way. My technique's always been to find a ridiculous amount of sources (you should see what I dumped at Talk:Sunshine (2007 film) from having Google Alerts locked on headlines for that film), then to sum it up. I'll see if your approach can be of any use, though. I'm done for the night, so I'm turning in. Have a good one. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 05:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:George Peppard Hannibal.jpg

Hello, Viriditas. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:George Peppard Hannibal.jpg) was found at the following location: User talk:Viriditas. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 05:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:Leone

This style would be preferable:

Clint Eastwood as the Man with No Name: Dubbed "the good".

It's a way of moving plot info whilst using highlights to maintain a cast list. Alientraveller 07:18, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Navigational Sidebar

Aloha. Aloha nō! I can take a stab at a new navigational sidebar. I need to create a To-Do list on my User Page so that I can remember all the stuff that I want to get done. Tonight, I added a "On this day" sub-portal to the Hawaiʻi Portal. Trying to get all 365 days of the year populated is going to be a tedious task for me. Hopefully, there will be someone out there in Wiki land that will see this, and take a whack at it as well. My goal is to have the Hawaiʻi Portal listed as a "Featured Portal". Pau, enough rambling. Let's talk about it though. Let me look at some of the other ones and come up with something. Aloha ahiahi. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 08:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Cast table

Please keep the cast table in format I reverted it. Your list was highly unstadard, and used blodface agains what established at WP:Manual of Style. Ciao and good work. --Attilios 09:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. —Viriditas | Talk 11:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Need Some Kokua!!!

Aloha. Do you know much about Portal Headers? If so, I need some help with getting the coding down. Mahalo Kanaka maoli i puuwai 09:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer to help with the daily content. So far, I have May finished and started June. I personally was going to do January thru April last since those will be the farthest away. If you want to help, just pick a month and start chipping away at it. I don't want to "tell" you what month to pick. ALSO, check out the Navy Portal. The header that is on the top that says...."Main Page"...."Categories"....and "Task and Projects". When you navigate between those portals, the header colors change depending upon which page you are on. I created the same type of header for the Hawaiʻi Portal. But the colors dont change when I add it to the Hawaiʻi Portal. I copied EXACTLY everything from the Navy Portal and changed the page names to Hawaii. I cannot figure it out for the life of me. Here is the header for the Hawaiʻi Portal. Portal:Hawaii/Header. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 20:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Shoots. If it works brah, let me know what you did. Kanaka maoli i puuwai 05:01, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I figured out a way to make it work. Check out the portal now. -- Kanaka maoli i puuwai 01:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Crystal ball

I saw your vote on the AfD for Spidey 4, and thought you might be interested in this. I'm trying to get the crystal ball policy amended to be more specific about what constitutes crystal and what doesn't, since there are a lot of people in the AfD going "well it has 12 sources, so it isn't crystal ball".  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I added merger tags on the articles, as AfD was probably the wrong way to go about it. I've discussed with the "What Wiki is not" people, and it seems we may have a better shot at creating a guideline for WikiProject Films instead. Please feel free to save the future film guidelines, and Erik's film guidelines and help us out. We watch so many articles that sometimes these types of issues pass by and we forget to work on them. Fresh eyes and fingers are always helpful.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Go to my user page and scroll down to "Projects", there is a link to the "Future film guidelines" we are working on. I believe his user page has a link to general "Film article guidelines". We opted to separate the "how to work with future films" and the "how to work on present films", just so we wouldn't bog 1 page down with content that is only relevant to one subject.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Just as easily get off my butt and provide the links myself:User:Erik/Film article guidelines and User:Bignole/Future films and reference guidelines. We haven't done anything on the regular article guidelines.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Care to copyedit Recombinant DNA?

Would you care to copyedit? I see from your history that you have quite a knack for it! Aloha ♥♥ ΜÏΠЄSΓRΘΠ€ ♥♥ ^{slurp me!} 20:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Arise, smithy Viriditas you are hereby blessed into the knightly order

Thank-You

Thank-You Viriditas for explaining the situation more clearly. I was angry at you for persisting in calling me a Meat-Puppet (who wouldn't be angry?) and I also accept that there was a mutual misunderstanding between you and I (and I have to say that Arcayne oughtn't to have gone off and started what I call "Discussion Wars" - it doesn't qualify as an Edit War - on my talk page, he should have kept the argument on the Article's talk page) and I guess that I got angry with you because of your accusations and therefore chose to side with Arcayne's POV and not examine the entire spectrum.

Accept my apologies as well for threatening you with ArbCom (even though that would have been completely pointless) and I hope to edit constructively with you in the future.

Booksworm ^{Talk to me!} 13:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

About assessments of two WikiProject Occult articles

First of all, THANK YOU. We really apreciate you having the time to read those article and help us imprve them by assessing them. Another thing, would you care writting some comments about the assesment? You can do so in the red link in the assesment template of the articles. Again, thanks a lot.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Legion fi (talk • contribs) 03:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about not signing above. Well, as I'm not directly editing those article I would have no use for your comments. Even though the policy dont enforce them, I think is necessary for people assesing articles to leave at least small quick comments. But as you said, it is okey if you dont. You've done more than enough assesing the article. Thanks again. --Legion fi 05:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Films watchlist

There is now an article list (actually had to split it into 10 pages) at Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Articles. You mentioned {{FilmsWikiProject}}, but that was a redirect to {{Films}} so I used Films. If you actually wanted FilmsWikiProject, let me know and I can change it. Ingrid 19:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you'll have to have 4 watchlists. This is because of a limitation of wikipedia. A page with more than about 9000 links (it's actually higher, but I've had problems with 10000) won't load properly. So, as far as I know, there's no way to get a single watchlist. The project may want to consider task forces so that the watchlists can be grouped by categories rather than just titles. I'm working with task forces on Wikipedia:WikiProject India, and I know Wikipedia:WikiProject Military History uses them extensively. I'm pretty busy with real life right now, but would be happy to help as I can with tagging or whatever if you decide to go that route. Ingrid 22:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know anything about the bot you mentioned. You might want to bring it up at Bot Requests or Bot Owner's Noticeboard. I definitely don't have time to pursue it right now. Ingrid 03:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion

Aloha. I added my name to the request list. I am going to talk with one of my admin friends so that I can get approved. But, do you know how to set-up the actual bot itself? Or does that program automatically set the bot for me? Kanaka maoli i puuwai 00:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

In response...

...not at all! Sr13 04:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Fight Club

Thanks for the compliment. I've found out a ridiculous amount of information about the film that never existed before, like Peter Jackson being petitioned to direct the film. The book Rebels on the Backlot really helped on a good portion of the article. Also, the edward-norton.org links are technically illegal, which is why I didn't link to the article about the Calgary Sun and so forth. The MrShowbiz one is a little more complicated -- I found the first page of the interview with the web archive, but I couldn't get any kind of access to the following page(s). You can see it here, though. It has the Rebel Without a Cause information that seemed missing, since the current link only shows the introduction to the interview.

There's another part of the book Rebels on the Backlot that really cover the negative reception of Fight Club in more detail, because the high RT percentage was really only accumulated later. There seemed to be a bit of backlash when it first came out, though. I wish I could report it, but I'm going out of town this afternoon for an internship in another state. I'll have to return the book to the library and see if I can acquire a copy later on to "complete" the article. Writing the lead is still challenging for me, though, in light of how everything is borderline spoiler-ish, like the type of cinematography and visual effects used. The GA nomination only failed because it was on hold too long before the main concern (expanding the lead) was addressed.

I have Fight Club and The Fountain on the runway for FA status. Don't know if you remember our tussle on the The Fountain months ago about my crappy Themes and influences section... :) I've continued to expand the article since, but there are some parts still incomplete (for example, still not a fan of the second half of the Themes section). Don't know if you'd want to revisit it, but your article there would be appreciated as well. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 14:29, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I only wrote the beginning and the end of the lead paragraphs. The middle part has been tweaked by a couple of others -- Pomte and Alientraveller, I think. I'm still trying to figure out how to write it. I agree with you that counterculture didn't seem appropriate; I'm sure better phrasing could be found. Anyway, I'll probably be AWOL for the next two days as I make my way to the internship site (15.5 hours away), not to mention settling in. Hopefully when I do, I can get Fight Club finally primed and ready. And really, feel free to edit The Fountain -- I'm still not satisfied with the product. A good portion of the information seems fine, but I don't really know if it fits in the right order or if it flows as best as it can. Featured Articles should be the best Wikipedia has to offer, after all. Happy editing. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 15:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Very true about the film being part of the perfect storm. I'll see what I can mention about the film speaking to Generation X; there ought to be some references floating around. Also, speaking of Palahniuk literature, are you aware of the film adaptation buzz for Choke? —Erik (talk • contrib) - 23:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a good source, that'll be great. We can probably fit the specific wording into the Values subsection. We could expand on the GenX target another way by finding reviews that make the connection between the film and the generation. Also, feel free to get your hands dirty with The Fountain; I don't know if the structure is perfect, but I think that the content could be molded into something that flows better. And glad I could inform you about the potential Choke film -- you can tell I keep my ear pretty closely to the ground in regard to future films. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Another thing -- I just started an internship this week, so between that and living in this apartment with other interns, I'm not finding an extraordinary amount of time for Wikipedia. Can't pursue projects like Road to Perdition for the time being. I'll probably be doing simple updates of new film information in the meantime. I'll try to find a block of time where I can take a break from society and whip some articles into shape. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 03:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Hacking Away at the "Hippie" Article

Here's where you and I differ, V. In moving all that stuff to "Talk," it will probably be lost, which is a shame. (Deleting the entire "Sexual attitudes" section seems especially inappropriate to me.) When I go to Wikipedia to read an article, I appreciate that some of the material offered will be "edge" material--not the safe, middle-of-the-road stuff one finds everywhere else. This edge material offers me broadened perspective, which I can use as a base for further research and consideration.

So when I add to, or edit, an article, when I review edits other people have made, I keep in mind this "edge" factor. And my primary criteria are: "Does this add something of value?" "Is this probably true?" "Is this well-written enough that it will offer some pleasure to the reader?"

You have an agenda: Make the article a "Good Article" or, preferably, a "Featured Article." I would submit that this agenda is not what keeps Wikipedia alive. It is not the reason most people contribute to Wikipedia. Radical pruning of an article like "Hippie" detracts from the sense of play and good spirit that make it worth reading at all.

You know, another editor who worked on the "Hippie" article earlier on told me that your approach made him so furious he would not be able to be in the same room with you without feeling the need to attack you physically. He had a lot to offer, yet he refuses to return until you either leave or change your ways.

Your agenda is, of course, "right"--in the sense that it can be defended as based on aspects of official Wikipedia policy. But I would ask you to consider a simple question: If your hard-nosed approach inspires such hostility in others, is that really what Wikipedia is all about? Apostle12 18:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Outreach

Aloha. I just got your note about the kokua section on the portal. I have had a LOT going on since Tuesday evening. Hopefully by today, everything will be worked out and things will get back to normal for me. I am interested in discussing this, just right now is not good. Give me a day or two. Mālama pono! -- Kanaka maoli i puuwai 18:15, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

One man's take

Thanks for the nice note -- my instinct about edits I would make to the text you posted on my discussion page connects to these two points:

a) I'm not at all sure that the Islamic march is meant to represent a part of the Uprising. (Remember that Theo distinguishes the Fishes from the Muslims very early on in the film in a discussion with Jasper, and that there are no obvious non-Muslims in the "Allahu Akbar" march. Nor is there a whisper of Islamic thought or practice in any Fish meeting; to the contrary, women are present in the council meetings.)

b) I wouldn't describe it as a procession of men -- I will have to watch the film again, but I am pretty sure there are grieving women in the march.

On a separate point -- one I don't really know where to put, but I feel I must share with someone -- it's interesting to me that the film seems to be as dubious of the motives of the (emergent) leadership of the Fishes as it is of the motives of the government. Of the Muslims, however, I find it interesting that we are actually told very little definitively. Did you notice?

I am not, I realize, a neutral observer. Yet it is meant to be hard, I think, for even a non-Muslim to see that march as a triumph of "radicalism" in any way -- the corpse is a little too prominent, and the women are wailing too loudly, and the world has been falling apart too scarily for too long. And we have been told too clearly by people we trust that politicians always seem to benefit from scary bombings. Theo does not join the Muslims on the March, but he does not flee from them, either.

The rise of those "Islamists" in the march (if that's what they are) is not, I think, meant to be seen in the way that we are meant to see Luke's ascent to the head of the Fishes: as a victory for a cynical kind of opportunism. That "Allahu Akbar" march, I think, is more a sign of the convulsions an oppressed people will inevitably exhibit when targeted too long by truncheons, snipers, and slick ad campaigns. (And who can say which of those three is worst ...) BYT 23:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. In an article where everything else was so very carefully sourced, it seemed odd how much POV speculation showed up in this passage. BYT 00:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I'm generally pretty busy and am spread kind of thin. But I'd be happy to collaborate in helping to shepherd the article through GA, A-class and FA. For GA, it will need a lot of work, mainly more references. It relies a lot on just a couple. I'm not sure where to start or what I can offer at this point, but I'll do what I can when I'm able. — WiseKwai 10:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:Domino poster.jpg

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Thanks for uploading Image:Domino poster.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. (ESkog)^(Talk) 08:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

Aloha Viriditas. I have begun a rewrite of this guideline. I hope this addresses some of your concerns. Marskell 09:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

CineVoter

File:Film Reel Series by Bubbels.jpg

You voted for the Cinema Collaboration of the week, and it has been chosen as Escape from New York.Please help improve it to match the quality of an ideal Wikipedia film article.

--PhantomS 23:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

180px

Me, too. I wish the default was just a bit larger. —  Jim Dunning  talk  :  02:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

May 2007 WP:FILMS Newsletter

The May 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated notice by BrownBot 22:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: The Fountain

Writing critical reaction sections isn't my strongest suit; I was always hoping that the tag would get someone else to contribute. The film's not major enough to do that, though. It'd be great if you could add reviews. It's not a matter of a lack of sources, just that I find it hard to balance opinions toward the film's metaphysical approach. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 10:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:BrilliantCornersTheloniousMonk.jpg

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If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

No

I said do not remove without discussion, I already talked about this on other users pages not the Vegan discussion so please do not incriminate me, I said if *you* want to remove things from a page especially tags discuss it on the talk page first, thank you.--Migospia †♥ 23:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

That is what I am saying they are well sourced but not well written and the NPOV was not my doing. This section:

However, vegans with poorly planned diets are at a risk for being deficient in nutrients such as vitamin B12, vitamin D, calcium, iodine and omega-3 fatty acids. These deficiencies can have potentially serious consequences, including anemia, rickets and cretinism in children, and osteomalacia and hyperthyroidism in adults.

Is what I have concerns for, because it specifically says However, vegans, when in reality any poorly planned diet has risk and vegans do not have more so risk only in vitamin B12 and if the rest, i.e vitamin D and calcium are going to stay in the article it should be stated--Migospia †♥ 23:23, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

An Inconvenient Truth

We need to write about Phillip Cooney more.--Tamás Kádár 19:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Be more careful about who wrote what

Regarding your comments on my talk page about "my additions" to Persecution of Christians.. you must not have read the entries very closely. I didn't make any of those additions. I commented in the Talk Page about a couple of them, but I didn't originally add any of them. You seem to have attributed somebody else's edits to me...and "that's not how we do things here" ( to use your own words). Please be careful about that. Take the time to go back and see who submitted the original entries...it's not always the same as people that comment on them in the talk page or revert deletions. --Anietor 01:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

My comments stand. Please see your talk page. —Viriditas | Talk 05:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

OK. And my comments stand as well. They weren't "my additions". Many editors have to revert countless vandals who delete material, sometimes entire articles. That certainly doesn't mean they've re-researched every citation and suddenly become responsible for the material. If you want to debate certain citations in the article, you're dealing with the wrong person. I don't have the info. Take the time to find the right editor. --Anietor 05:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you have it all backwards. If you are going to revert material, you need to have a good reason. I explained to you why the material was removed. —Viriditas | Talk 05:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

natural history;natural disasters

what I did was organize what were just articles into categories. For each state, natural history categories existed and within those categories were natural disaster articles for that state. I placed the natural disaster articles into natural disaster category for the state within that state's natural history category. Whether there is one (natural or not) disaster, several or many does not matter in a category scheme set up for all 50 states. Certainly over time there will be more disasters (natural or not) for each state. And disasters are part of the state's history so the state's disaster category belongs to the state's history category. All part of the category tree structure of WP. Now the states category structure matches the structure at the US level. Thanks Hmains 02:10, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I can only repeat what I just said. I moved little from where it already was; I mostly created categories out of it. And I am mimicking the structure at the national US level. Please check. Now, if you can get around saying I changed something, you may want to look at whether the change you want to make is agreeable. I don't think it is, as the natural disasters include a lot more than geography (hurricanes, show storms, etc). I expect you will have to convince various editors as I suppose this structure has been around for awhile; my opinion is just one. Thanks Hmains 02:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not only for the US that this category structure is in use, it is also for every country in the world. There is no reason to make Hawaii an exception to a US state-wide and country-wide pattern. Hmains 02:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Having read the article on natural history, I agree that natural disasters are not a subcategory of natural history. Having read the article and high level categories on geography, I agree that natural disasters are a subcategory of geography. Also that natural disasters are a subcategory of disasters and disasters are a subcategory of history. I will undertake to make make changes in countries and in states soon. Hmains 04:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

The Categories for Discussion CfD works for deleting categories or renaming them; this is neither; it is just changing the category tree structure, which is sort of routine. I use AWB for such mass changes so no big problem for me to get it done. Do you agree with my proposed structure? I can work on it this weekend. Hmains 03:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Structure:

geography of foo -> natural disasters in foo -> disaster-article

history of foo -> disasters in foo -> natural disasters in foo -> ...

Hmains 19:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

• Done. I had to re-make 2 changes to Hawaii cats that originally irritated you in order to make Hawaii be the same as 49 other US states and all the 80 some countries I worked on. Thanks for input. Hmains 22:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Your note

Hi Viriditas, take for example Abundant Life Foundation. When you click on it and look at the entry, there is no acronym there. To make the dab list useful to our readers, we should only include entries that are notably referred to with this name by reliable sources. That would require that the cited acronym reference be in the lead of each entry. Otherwise, we'd get a flood of acronyms that are rarely if ever used, cluttering up the dab page and making it hard to find acronyms that are frequently used. My main goal is to make sure that if a reader looks up a popular acronym it is easy to find, and not lost in a maze of obscure ones. Crum375 03:20, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I do think that having two unrelated organization with the same name and acronym is a problem. I also think that the acronym should always be at the beginning, right after the fully spelled out name. I am not sure about the notability of this particular entry, as I see no WP:RS source for it, with or without the acronym. At this point I am not really eager to start AfD fights over it, but OTOH I don't see how we can include it in the dab page, where you have other bona-fide entries with proper RS, as it effectively clutters up the page. Again, imagine a reader who looks for a high g-hit notable entry - this inclusion of totally unsourced (by Wikipedia's RS standards) items on the dab list masks out the important sourced ones. This is why I believe we should only include the notable well sourced entries on the dab page. Thanks, Crum375 13:50, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I think we agree about that example being a marginal notability entry, that has no reliable sourcing at this point. I used it as example to illustrate my point, which I also made in my edit summary and SlimVirgin made on the Talk page, that having a long list of non-notable or marginally notable entries tends to mask out the prominent ones. My concern is that users looking up an entry with 1 million g-hits have to sift through a long list of clutter to find it, which does not make sense. The best way is to have the most notable entries (e.g. using g-hits as a reference) up front, and the less notable ones farther down. The ones that are unsourced simply do not belong, IMO. Crum375 23:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe, as I noted in my edit summary, that the common terms have to be easy to find. The version I reverted to has a shorter list of more notable terms, and makes it easier to find the items that are most likely to be sought by readers. Crum375 01:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

If, as you say, we are not too far apart, then do you agree with the principle that important (notable) items should not be hidden among obscure non-notable ones? If so, we need to have a very short list of the most reliably sourced notable uses of the term. My edit summaries are very clear - if I feel there is something to add to the relevant thread on the Talk page, I will add it. Thanks, Crum375 01:52, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

natural history

Good ideas. I believe the question is 'What is encompassed by natural history? Is it just the life of plants and animals or does it also include the life of the earth?' I believe the problem arises from the text of the Natural history article so I suggest the talk page of that article as a good place to discuss things. It might also be noticed by editors who have knowledge of the subject. Thanks. Hmains 00:19, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, the recent question about 'old floods'. Then, there was a question awhile back as to whether 'geology of foo' should be a subcat of 'geography of foo' or of 'natural history of foo' or whatever. I have noticed at the country level that 'natural history of foo' is placed as a subcat of 'environment of foo' which is then a direct subcat of the country/state instead of 'natural history of foo' being a direct subcat of the country/state. I am thinking of creating 'environment of foo (US state)' categories to match the national level and include natural history and geology. Having 'geology of foo (US state)' categories' will solve the problem of where to put below surface earth structures, but still not solve the problem of where to put ancient events, such 'old floods', 'old volcanic eruptions', etc. Thanks. Hmains 00:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Any place is fine with me. Thanks Hmains 02:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

• I do not believe your change is correct. Environment is all encompassing; natural history (plants and animals) is a just a part of it. I will separate the subjects for California back to how they were before I changed them. Many editors have contributed and accepted the categories in this fashion (natural history within environment) for the countries of the world and I see no good reason to change that. Unless you find sources of some kind to justify changing this structure for the countries of the world, I would plan on extending this to the US state level. Hmains 03:27, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I feel your pain

I too, am getting annoyed at a disruptive user. Angie Y. 13:11, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Hawaii

Mahalo for the invite, my father is a McKlinley grad and I still have cousins on the islands. Right now I am trying desperately to get to Japan, as per my userpage, so all my energy is focused there. I do contribute where I can, though. Aloha, Chris 18:45, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

External links on disambiguation pages

Please refrain fromm adding external links to disambiguation pages (such as ALF). MoS:DP states that we should be "giving disambiguation pages a consistent look and avoiding distracting information, such as extraneous links (internal or external)." Chris the speller 03:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Any references or external links on dab pages should be invisible to readers of Wikipedia. For other editors, place them in an invisible comment. Any dispute with other editors should not punish the readers. Chris the speller 03:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a way to make cite.php invisible on the dab page, so how about putting all the documentation (entries with citations) on the talk page, or on a subpage, while keeping only the entries on the actual dab page, if you can stand the challenge of keeping 2 sets of books? Chris the speller 03:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Warning

I am warning both you and Arcayne to cease sniping at one another, stop altering, refactoring or removing each other's comments (except yes, you may remove such from your own talk page if you really must), and desist from giving "official warnings" to one another. I really don't care which of you started this; this behavior from both of you is not helpful and frankly more than a little childish. I'd suggest both of you simply ignore one another for the time being. If the other says something you believe to be rude, you can prove your maturity by not responding to it. >Radiant< 09:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XIII - June 2007

The June 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 15:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Notice

This dispute is really not going anywhere, and I can't say I'm overly impressed with your flood of edits about ALF, a variety of unfriendly remarks therein, and the WP:LAME edit war on the ALF talk page. Really now, if you cite another editor's opinion and this editor informs you that your statement is incorrect, is it that difficult to change your statement?

Both of you are hereby banned from the page ALF, all articles on anything else that happens to be called "alf", and all corresponding talk pages, for the next three days, i.e. up to and including saturday. There appear to be sufficient other people on the ALF page to find a reasonable compromise. Please step away from this dispute and find something else to edit. >Radiant< 16:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

• Might I suggest that "the other guy started it" is really not much of an excuse? Also, what Arcayne did half a year ago seems hardly relevant; indeed, it gives the impression that you looked for bad things he did and couldn't find any in the past five months. >Radiant< 07:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Themes

Since you wrote quite a bit about themes in Children of Men, I'd like to invite you to share your perspective about the inclusion of Themes and Cinematic styles sections at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines#Proposal for new sections. Arcayne has made a comment on the proposal, and I would strongly advise against any bloodshed. I've questioned whether it was appropriate or not to extend the invitation to you, considering Arcayne's presence, but it's a gamble I'm willing to take. (And I saw the crap that went down on ALF -- come on, guys!) Anyway, I hope you can add your $0.02 to the matter. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 13:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Arctic council logo.jpg)

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fish farming

fish farming is a business; businesses try to make money; this is an economic activity so if it happens in Hawaii it is part of the Hawaii economy. Hmains 04:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

ok good; does it still belong in 'agriculture of the US' though? Hmains 04:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

I'm not sure what you refer to; Rich's last argument on the page is that "many of us support sending all/most of the cleanup-tags to the end of the page"; I fail to see what this has to to with wikiprojects. >Radiant< 11:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)